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As long as you let an industry to continue ( in some cases) to charge $1200.00 for a pair of wooden crutches.... $ 800.00 for a 10 minute ambulance ride....$65.00 charge for 2 ADVIL... $150,000 for a 2 hr operation.....pay over $80.00 per pill for medications....force people to see 2 Dr's & be CHARGED for it when just going to the one Dr is what is needed...charge for procedures that WERENT done....deny payments for things, JUST so the friggin company can manage their "cash flow" better..I still have a molded plastic back brace with 2 VELCRO strips that my wife needed when fighting cancer, originally billed out $3300, cost under $150.00 to make ( HIGH estimate), I had to fight like hell to get the price reduced to $1600.00, which insurance paid $600.00 for...I still keep it as a reminder of just how much BS OUR system REALLY is.....


And what about all the damn FRAUD ????? Dead people recieving Medicare & Medicade payments....phony Dr's with PO boxes receiving Medicare & Medicade payments from medical information either stolen or bought.....the state of Florida has TONS of crap like that going on ..........


And people want the government to dictate how THIS bill is going to "help" us ????? LOL

Look at SSI.......people shouldnt have to get a damn attorney to get disability payments they DESERVE.......that will be next with ANYTHING RUN by the government....



This bill NEEDS to be defeated......all it does is spread already bloated costs around MORE.......

Letting the government run our health has got to go. Next the current administration has to go. What happened to Obama's promise to get rid of all pork. What a joke. They even put pork in their proposed health care bill. Meanwhile all Obama can do is get his damn face on tv and blame Bush for everything he is doing himself. He is a complete failure - an empty suit isn't enough of a description!!

"Meanwhile all Obama can do is get his damn face on tv and blame Bush for everything he is doing himself. "

Washington Post - 2006:

"George W. Bush, retreating to familiar ground, has blamed the Clinton administration for North Korea’s nuclear arsenal. "

Interview on CNN June 23, 2000

GOV. GEORGE W.BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: "There seems to be an effort out of Washington to blame me for rising energy prices. And the American people don't buy that. It's the -- Clinton-Gore administration's been there for seven years, we're more dependent now than ever before on energy from foreign sources. And I am amazed that they're trying to shift the blame away from the people that are holding the office."

Do you want more examples Janie.. I'd be happy to provide.

Don't ever criticize me for blaming the current situation on Bush again. And furthermore, Obama has the clean up the mess Bush and people like yourself created.

Healthcare must be a right for all Americans. And current healthcare costs are 16% of our GNP, meaning it adds 16% to the value of everything we buy - the highest add-on cost to goods and services of anywhere in the world. This is the worst tax of all except instead of the benefit going to Americans it goes to companies who are trying so hard to defeat this like Aetna. Lieberman supports this current system. Lieberman has been called the Senator from Aetna. He should not longer be the U.S. Senator from CT.

You stick to your guns Joe... Don't let those left-wing liberal socialists push their 1st step to socialism on this Country.

Keep it up Joe. Most people do not want this government intrusion in our health care. The Republicans have our best interests at heart.

Peto, if this bill goes through as it is presently formulated, you will eventually be paying 30% - 40% of your present income to cover the costs. That's the figure! Do the math! Then sit back try to be happier with 16%. I know it's an awful figure and reform CAN change that, but not with the public option that is now proposed. There IS a better way. We just haven't found it yet.

LOL I'm not sure that's true about the Republicans Davy, but the Democrats sure as hell don't care about our best interests if they pass this crap reform as it stands now.....

I too am disappointed in Joe's stand on this. The public option was the best idea but the fear-mongers put irrational fears into Americans so that they can no longer think for themselves, have reasonable discussions and understand the issues.
It is shameful that the supposedly richest and best country in the world cannot provide affordable healthcare to its WORKING people.
It is a RIGHT, not a luxury.

Disgusted.... It's a right???? I may have missed something here...

" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

I don't see health-care listed as a 'right'...

Perhaps if they truly cared about doing their JOBS in Washington and actually legislated fixes to what is wrong with the healthcare system instead of just making everyone that is working pay for those who aren't, perhaps things would be better for all of us. That WOULD be covered under the '...promote the general welfare...' provision.

Big difference in the two words Promote and Provide... Obama's trying to re-write OUR Constitution and re-distibute the wealth of our country, no doubt about that.

I do see general welfare listed as a right. Therefore, we can get healthcare.

Able,

Was it mentioned elsewhere in one of the Ammendments to the Constitution ? No it wasn't.. so therefore back to the difference between Provide and Promote....

If they had wanted the people in this Country to be the golden goose for those sitting around whining and crying with their hands out, then they would have said 'Provide for the general welfare'...

"Peto, if this bill goes through as it is presently formulated, you will eventually be paying 30% - 40% of your present income to cover the costs"

Proof, Alice? And Sean Hannity does not count...

Ordinary Citizen, Aside from South Africa, we are the only nation possessing a political system that does not believe health care is a right. If so, how do you define "general Welfare" I'm assuming this does not include the health of the nation?

Does that mean I can stop paying your social security and medicare? If so, THANK GOD!

"Big difference in the two words Promote and Provide... Obama's trying to re-write OUR Constitution and re-distibute the wealth of our country, no doubt about that."

Thats right, we can actually agree on something (the mere thoguht of it makes me sick). We can agree that he wants to redistribute the wealth of the nation in the same way Bush did. Rather than giving the majority of the income to the top 1%, he wants others to have the opportunity and right to access it. And since I work my a$$ off and pay more of a percentage of my taxable income than Bill Gates, I have no problem with a redistribution.

The fact is this. When, in the early 21st century the tax codes were rewritten by congress to benefit the wealthy you didn't complain. Now that congress is attempting to rewrite them to benefit the middle class and pore i.e. the majority, you scream your gut out.

Todd, your rant now sounds like Able's Congratulations....

By the way you are not paying for my social security and medicare, I am !!!

LOL

Stick to your guns Joe ! We need to kill this bill. why should they cut 500 billion from medicare to pay for it. If you watch the dems closely you will notice that they will agree to anything at this stage just to say they got a healthcare bill passed.


"Dump Dodd"

Able, you know that the founding fathers did not have our welfare system in mind when they said "general welfare". Stop being so shallow.

Rights are given by God. You are born with them. You've got a 'right' to all the healthcare you can afford, same as me. You have a right to a nice house, with plenty of hot food on the table - as long as you can produce goods or services to offer in barter to someone else to pay for it.
You have no 'right' to take the goods or services of another without offering something of equal value in return.
We stopped that in April of 1865.

Free healthcare IS NOT A RIGHT!

You want healthcare, pay for it. I am so sick of people thinking the government owe them anything. It doesn't!

Hey Bill, Todd and Able will post some radically communist stuff we know no decent American would ever write, so i think they just do it for fun.

'Able, you know that the founding fathers did not have our welfare system in mind when they said "general welfare". Stop being so shallow.'

How is that being shallow? Also, you're co-opting my answer, in hopes of tailoring it your needs. The general welfare includes social programs, show me how it doesn't.

'Hey Bill, Todd and Able will post some radically communist stuff we know no decent American would ever write, so i think they just do it for fun.'

You're not sure what Communism is, are you? Because, I am not a Communist, nor do I post quotes from Marx. Also, please define what a 'decent American' is. Are 'decent Americans' the ones who stole land from the Indigenous populations? The ones who waged wars for natural resources? The ones who deny the rights to their citizens based on their race, color or sexual identity?

If so. Call me a poor excuse for an American, but an excellent human being.

If one has read any of the Federalist Papers and other documents about the Constitution-- not to mention the Constitution itself, it is most logical to reason that our Founding Fathers wanted to protect the people from big government. Unfortunately, the left wingers are trying to tell us that it is a living document that should be changed with the times without the people ratifying the changes. They seem to forget that humans have not changed much over thousands of years and their need for a few to rule the majority is the same now as it has always been. The people want freedom not government control that eventually leads to tyranny and corruption. The Constitution has done its best to assure freedom-- until the left got its hands on it.

Sorry Able, You've got your self-definition wrong a little bit.

you're a poor excuse for a lot of things and an excellent nothing......

I applaud Joe Lieberman for his stance on the bill so far. The bill is a complete joke and needs to be defeated. Anyone who says the constitution contemplates government health care for all has never studied the constitution in its historical context. Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves to hear what the current politicians have been doing and what they are trying to ram down our throats with this "health care" bill.

More corruption with the President trying to tell the Senate what to do.

"The White House is encouraging Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to cut a deal with Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), which would mean eliminating the proposed Medicare expansion in the health reform bill, according to an official close to the negotiations."

All presidents want to control Congress, but this is ridiculous and very disconcerting if Congress actually allow it. The Constitution up to be separation of power-- not a rubber stamp.

ROTFLOL-- Able says he not a Communist... While most of his posts support the left wing philosophy.
I visited the Marx museum of communism in Trier Germany and after spending a lot of time evaluating the teachings of Marxism I can assure anyone that left wingers follow the Communist doctrine of big government. For some reason the left wingers don''t like to be called Communists-- but the accept "liberal". Maybe its because they don't want to reveal their selves as such. Milton Friedman was as self described liberal and I hardly think left wingers follow his Capitalistic teachings.

"All presidents want to control Congress, but this is ridiculous and very disconcerting if Congress actually allow it. "

Patriot Act, War in Iraq, War on Terror, TARP. You were alright when congress rubber stamped everything Bush wanted, now you have problems with it and criticize them for doing the same with Obama. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

"Hey Bill, Todd and Able will post some radically communist stuff we know no decent American would ever write, so i think they just do it for fun."

If you're a "decent American" then I'm leaving the country. Are you a nasty bigot just for fun? I would hope so, because if you are as nasty and angry as you seem you will mostly likely be a very sad person.

"you're a poor excuse for a lot of things and an excellent nothing......"

Do you have anything constructive to contribute? Just remember that it was your generation that screwed us up. And remember me when you get your social security check, as you are living off my income... socialist.

"Able says he not a Communist... While most of his posts support the left wing philosophy."

Thats because all on the left are Communists? I don't really believe that to be so. It's like me saying that all on the right are self-absorbed capitalist, gun slinging pigs. It just doesn't make sense. However, many in this thread who are on the right are unable to see the gray in any argument. Rather you are this or that, black or white, and there is nothing between.

Todd, I for one found plenty of things to criticize George W. Bush for, but at least his administration wasn't loaded up with Communists. Obama has plenty of self-avowed communists and anti-capitalists in his administration and his policies reflect that. As for people on the right not seeing any gray areas, liberals have trouble seeing anything as black and white. A good example is the constitution: liberals want to stretch it and bend it to extremes to make it say things that it simply doesn't say. I for one think that it is good to realize that some things ARE black and white, just like we teach our children that some things are right and some things are just wrong.

"An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others."
James Madison, Federalist No. 58, 1788

Did James see Obama in the future?

I find it humorous that liberals feel free to make snide and condescending comments here. However when someone replies in a similar fashion towards them, they try to obfuscate the issue by comments such as "Do you have anything constructive to contribute?".....

As always, they think that only they have the right to speak their opinions... the rest of us here aren't allowed to unless it follows the kool-aid mantra...

OC.....You know which liberal it is. The same one who wants to have all of us Conservatives locked up in a prison camp or shipped out of the USA so they can live in their la la liberal only world. Todd= idiot liberal who can keep dreaming!! Because I am not going anywhere no matter what the jerk*** says.

Actually, it's more than one...

But Todd has been the thorn in a lot of people's backside especially mine for a while now.

'The same one who wants to have all of us Conservatives locked up in a prison camp or shipped out of the USA so they can live in their la la liberal only world.'

Interesting. I'd like to see where this is said, by anyone. On the other hand, I don't care if you're here, you entertain me.

'you're a poor excuse for a lot of things and an excellent nothing...... '

Well, at least I'm excellent at being nothing. Gold stars all around!

'Able says he not a Communist... While most of his posts support the left wing philosophy.'

All of my posts represent a leftist philosophy, not most. Secondly, by your logic Communism is the ONLY ideology on the left. So, we can conclude that you have no understanding of the political spectrum and should not be regarded as an expert in these matters.

'I can assure anyone that left wingers follow the Communist doctrine of big government.'

I follow the doctrine of no government.

'For some reason the left wingers don''t like to be called Communists-- but the accept "liberal".'

If I were a Communist then I wouldn't care being called one, but as I'm not, it is confusing. Also, I don't mind the term 'liberal,' but do the term 'Liberal.' As one can define the whole left, and the other defines a Democrat who just wants to fix problems with checks.

'Maybe its because they don't want to reveal their selves as such.'

I have no problem admitting what ideology I am once individuals on this blog are able to deduce what it is. If one understood the various philosophies than it would become a simple venture.

'Milton Friedman was as self described liberal and I hardly think left wingers follow his Capitalistic teachings.'

He was about as liberal as Reagen.

Able,

I have to admit that your belief "I follow the doctrine of no government." is truly funny.... you espouse all this existentialism crap such as that all the time....

If your world were to be turned upside down by some natural catastrophe, you'd be the first one yelling and screaming, demanding that the Government take care of you...

You'll be whimpering in the corner when bands of lawless thugs decide that they want to take what you have for themselves...

I'm sure you wouldn't last a day without modern items like electricity and running water...

So please shut up with the "I believe in no government" garbage... it sounds nice and may impress the little boys and girls in the coffee bar or whatever other cafe you hangout in, but it truly is an asinine comment...

'If your world were to be turned upside down by some natural catastrophe, you'd be the first one yelling and screaming, demanding that the Government take care of you...'

You base this on what assumption? Where are any quotes, facts, data and analysis to back up this realization? You have none, therefore your attempt at a logical ending to your assumption is all for naught.

'You'll be whimpering in the corner when bands of lawless thugs decide that they want to take what you have for themselves...'

The second component of your assumption is that humanity will be DEVOID of humanity, or community or willingness to protect itself. One need not maintain a government to do participate within those actions.

'I'm sure you wouldn't last a day without modern items like electricity and running water...'

My water comes from the rain filtration and containment system currently, so tell me again how this would be a problem? Secondly, my power comes from various renewable resources that are fed back into the grid, and can subsist by themselves without a centralized facility. So, thanks for trying, I love the effort, but you've failed again.

'So please shut up with the "I believe in no government" garbage... it sounds nice and may impress the little boys and girls in the coffee bar or whatever other cafe you hangout in, but it truly is an asinine comment...'

I don't drink coffee. The only asinine comments come from those who believe government, capitalism and lack of education are the ways to set humanity free. So, while you attempt to belittle me because you fear what you do not know, I will take that internal hatred you have and still make attempts to make the world better for you.

Thank God for Joe Lieberman! The most honest senator in congress.

Let's not forget he not the only democrat that won't vote for it. You see some of them want to get re-elected. The 2010 election will be bad news for them.

Max....You are 100% dead on accurate. The First one to lose will be our pompous a** Senior US Senator Chris "Do Nothing and hide from his constituents" Dodd. He hides under the seat in his SUV when he goes to a political event like he did at LaCupola's in Litchfield. Dodd hates seeing people with "Dump Dodd" Signs. Lieberman has more class and brains than Dodd ever will in a lifetime. The Liberal Meatheads who post here and are dead from the neck up will finally face the music first in 2010 when they lose the US Senate Seat and the Governor's race yet again. God bless Conservatives and the real voters(not the Liberal Putzs)of Connecticut. Liberalism.... a fad that is running its course. After 2013 these morons will disappear back into the woodwork or whatever rock they crawled out from under.

I'm usually good for ending the diatribe from the geriatric and pompous windbags that comment on these stories. Just what options do YOU propose be offered to American citizens who do not have healthcare coverage? Forget about the fear that has been spoken ad nauseum about what this bill is going to do to your health coverage. I want you to propose a solution and "killing" the bill is not an option. Joe Lieberman is a gutless, spiteful man who is doing his best to get back at the Democratic Party for rejecting his candidacy. Prove me wrong and I'd like to especially hear from the nutcase, "Hosed by the System". What are telling carcicature of a man.

It is refreshing to see one of our senators holding to his principles and not bow to the pressures of Tv analysts. I struggle to believe the government was designed to be in competition with private industry.

Able, your rant misses the whole point of my rant...

Plain and simple, all I was trying to say is that your "I follow the doctrine of no government " is truly a crock of BS...

Society as a whole operates on the basis of laws and governance. For you to say that you believe in no government is to say that you also don't believe in society. Yet you profess to be all for a better society... Two opposing ideas.

I'm truly glad that you have the environmentally sensible rain water collection (just curious though... how does it compensate for a drought or other dry spell?) and renewable energy sources as well.

My point was more to the fact that, like I said, when you are faced with lawless thugs who could care less for society find out you have this wonderful little oasis of creature comfort and decide to take it from you, who are you going to turn to? I assume you're anti-gun and wouldn't keep one in your house, much less know how to safely and effectively use it.

As for the "" So please shut up with the "I believe in no government" garbage... it sounds nice and may impress the little boys and girls in the coffee bar or whatever other cafe you hangout in, but it truly is an asinine comment...""

It really is an asinine thing to say and will only impress the high school kiddies or college kids.

It doesn't wash with anyone who is mature and has a grip on reality.

Whether or not you drink coffee is a moot point.

'Plain and simple, all I was trying to say is that your "I follow the doctrine of no government " is truly a crock of BS...'

Yet, I just proved to you it isn't. While you may be scared of living in a world where a government is non-existent, I am not.

'I assume you're anti-gun and wouldn't keep one in your house, much less know how to safely and effectively use it.'

I am anti-gun, but do know how to use one, and have fired one on countless occasions. So, there you go attempting to create misconceptions with your narrow world view.

'how does it compensate for a drought or other dry spell?'

One must compensate in the same manner any other individual does throughout the world when it is threatened either by privatization or natural catastrophe. You improvise. That being said, I do have pipes with 'city water' running to my home, for they were there when I purchased the home. It is not my goal to absolve myself from issues, for it is impossible to, merely to lessen certain impacts.

'It doesn't wash with anyone who is mature and has a grip on reality.'

Other than the millions of professionals, lawyers, doctors, athletes, farm workers, social workers, non-profit works, school teachers, union and non-union workers and others who already support it.

'Whether or not you drink coffee is a moot point.'

It was sarcasm, and sorry that you're unable to address that.

'For you to say that you believe in no government is to say that you also don't believe in society. Yet you profess to be all for a better society... Two opposing ideas.'

I shall address the separate points. Firstly, I do not believe in government as a general philosophy, but am a realist and do understand that a government exists, therefore it should be to the benefit of those citizens that dwell within its reaches. One must work within the system they are given, and change it from within, therefore that is what I, and the countless millions whom support a similar thought process also do.

Now, a society can exist with a fragmented rule of law, and without a governance, in the sense of a centralized operating body. One should look into the Tsimihety and study their culture, societal structure and realize that while their is no government, they still exist in large numbers.

"The same one who wants to have all of us Conservatives locked up in a prison camp or shipped out of the USA so they can live in their la la liberal only world. "

I said you are free to leave the country and that I would buy your ticket. Second, that paranoid assertion of "concentration camps" comes from Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. If you are dumb enough to believe it go right ahead.

"But Todd has been the thorn in a lot of people's backside especially mine for a while now."

Probably because I don't agree with you...

"I find it humorous that liberals feel free to make snide and condescending comments here."

Yes, because your profanity and threat laced comments are not snide, abusive or condescending. Maybe you should look up those words, as you apparently don't know how they are used OR you are so out of touch with your own psyche that you cannot see the behaviors you criticize in others in yourself.

But, as in the past, I am done addressing you.

Todd is a typical nasty f__ liberal. And you are such a liar Todd you have said you were done before talking to me Yet it keeps happening. I can't wait until Dodd and all your candidates lose so i can rub it in your face idiot.

... I am pretty sure he isn't a Dodd supporter, and have saw him post that.

The Liberals who post here need to go back to drinking their kool aid and blazing up their crackpipe because that is about all a liberal is good for.

Well. I'm glad to know positive discourse still exists!